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Forums › Arizona FJ Discussion › Land Use › The bottom line.
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The bottom line.
Meetings, access issues, cleanups, news, land use info.
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Chigoe
Baja Champ
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Joined: Jan 03, 2008
Posts: 3621
Location: Sunny Scottsdale

PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:13 pm    Post subject: The bottom line. Reply with quote

I have read thru hundreds and hundreds of pages related to "travel management" issues; BLM , Forest Service, etc., findings, closures , planning studies and the like.
One thing I noticed was they all had the same legal wording, but also have a common and very distinct attitude about what was "right" and "wrong" pertaining to land use....not a scientific method, but a pre-existing agenda.

A bit of searching for "Route Evaluation Tree Process©" , which is whats used to by Gov. agencys to decide areas and routes for closure, leads to these fine folks.

While the public is ignored, it is their (environmentalists) agenda that is pushed thru without question. Why....because they run the meetings too.

Show us what you want closed, and we will get you all the documents you need to support it. Science or not.
Well even take care of that annoying public input meeting.


Bottom line is that the closure of our lands has been well thought out, well funded, and well choreographed by a few individuals, not as random "environmental issues" that we are led to believe, and these are the people .

Ya just knew there was a common thread running through all this B.S.
Sad, just f%$#ing sad.


Excerpts from their website:

About Advanced Resource Solutions

Advanced Resource Solutions, Inc. (ARS) is a multi-disciplinary environmental consulting firm specializing in land use, recreation and travel management planning, GPS route/facility inventories, route marker installation, public outreach and mediation, and the preparation of environmental documentation. The staff is fully integrated with specialists in travel management, recreation and land use planning, environmental documentation and compliance, wilderness planning, Geographic Information Systems (GIS), environmental law, air quality, plant community ecology, environmental monitoring, landscape architecture, ecology, wildlife and population biology, geology, geomorphology, and biogeography.

A great deal of this experience has centered on working with these agencies on land use documents that include as a major component, issues related to the management of public access (including off-highway vehicle recreation) in locations often characterized by sensitive habitats or species.


The staff at ARS has worked with many agencies, including the Bureau of Land Management, USDA Forest Service, National Park Service, US Fish and Wildlife Service, National Marine Fisheries Service, US Corps of Engineers, Environmental Protection Agency and numerous State agencies. This experience has allowed the staff to hone their skills in land use planning, environmental compliance (e.g., NEPA, ESA), performing GPS inventory, public hearings, responding to comments, GIS analysis, environmental monitoring, and the development of innovative land use and travel management solutions.

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Finn
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Joined: Aug 05, 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:42 pm    Post subject: Re: The bottom line. Reply with quote

Interesting. We all need to put our heads together and figure out a way it can be stopped.

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Angry_Tim
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Joined: Mar 28, 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:45 pm    Post subject: Re: The bottom line. Reply with quote

Finn wrote:
Interesting. We all need to put our heads together and figure out a way it can be stopped.

Have more money and better lobbyists then the opposition.

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I thought you weren't doing boy scouts any more???
glideraz wrote:
i'm glad i figured out your shaft was already f'ed up
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Thoreau
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Joined: Aug 17, 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:58 pm    Post subject: Re: The bottom line. Reply with quote

Angry_Tim wrote:
Finn wrote:
Interesting. We all need to put our heads together and figure out a way it can be stopped.

Have more money and better lobbyists then the opposition.

Dammit. Guess that means sticking to LEGAL options =)

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AG3NT

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What are the odds of shooting at an FJ and not getting shot back???
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blue10
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Joined: Nov 12, 2010
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Location: Mesa

PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:28 pm    Post subject: Re: The bottom line. Reply with quote

Screw it. Wait for the collapse then wheel anywhere you like. Wink

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Angry_Tim
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Joined: Mar 28, 2008
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Location: Marana,az

PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:35 am    Post subject: Re: The bottom line. Reply with quote

blue10 wrote:
Screw it. Wait for the collapse then wheel anywhere you like. Wink

Solid plan

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FatRat wrote:
I thought you weren't doing boy scouts any more???
glideraz wrote:
i'm glad i figured out your shaft was already f'ed up
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okiefj
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Joined: Aug 29, 2011
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Location: Glendale, Arizona

PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:59 am    Post subject: Re: The bottom line. Reply with quote

JUST DANCE!!!

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tanman
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Joined: Jun 03, 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:06 am    Post subject: Re: The bottom line. Reply with quote

okiefj wrote:
JUST DANCE!!!


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VoodoChild
Obstacle Crusher
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Joined: May 01, 2008
Posts: 1694
Location: N.Phoenix,Az

PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:36 pm    Post subject: Re: The bottom line. Reply with quote

tanman wrote:
okiefj wrote:
JUST DANCE!!!



F.....N David Bowie....Clown......Always loved this video from 3:30 on where he acts as if hes playing lead guitar....Hes not cuz he cant ..Its Stevie Ray Vaughan Playing and bowie proved wut a douche he is the way that record wuz made !!!
But yes Dancing is good !!! Just not in Footloose !

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My1stJeep
AZ Pinstriped
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Joined: Apr 29, 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:40 am    Post subject: Re: The bottom line. Reply with quote

You are correct, they are well funded, the people working for them are willing to work for little pay because closing down areas means more to them then the money they are paid, they have people who are paid to go the the meetings about closures it is their job, and of course in the end of the plan seems to be failing, they have a legal team in place and threaten the agency with a law suit if they don't get their way. Of course the agency does not want to waste money on a law suit, they look to those who are in the OHV community for support to fight the law suit and we provide none, so they cave.

Even when those who are anti-ohv don't 100% agree, if it says closure they support it without question. I am not saying that is the right way, heck this group has raised many questions about those fighting to save lands, all of the questions were valida and warranted, and while we are not perfect in doing our work, we do what we can, me have limited resources and funds, we don't have the surplus of funds they have, we don't have people willing to work for next to nothing in order to get what they want, so it is a very tough battle.

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Finn
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Joined: Aug 05, 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:41 pm    Post subject: Re: The bottom line. Reply with quote

I found this very interesting...

www.washingtonpost.com...story.html

Sounds like BLM might Kill more tortoises then OHV users probably ever have.

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duner
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Joined: Nov 15, 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:42 am    Post subject: Re: The bottom line. Reply with quote

Donate money or join groups like Blue Ribbon, ASA, they fight closures but man groups like the Sierra Club do have alot of money. Heck the Sierra Club sends planes out to the Dunes on the big weekends trying to catch and record people driving in the closed zones. So join a club that fights these people, even the little bit it costs to join is worth it!
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AZstateParksOHV
Dusty Truck
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Joined: Jan 07, 2013
Posts: 72

PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:47 pm    Post subject: Re: The bottom line. Reply with quote

Reading the OP and Chris's response, it appears as if you guys think ARS has an environmental agenda. They are simply a government contractor that agencies like BLM and USFS hire to complete work the agencies do not have staff for. I actually know a couple of people who worked for ARS that are avid dirt bikers and wheelers. They were hired to inventory routes on BLM land so that they can be added to the road inventory and posted route signage so people know where to go. Those dudes worked hard to make sure every remote track was picked up and counted so we could continue to enjoy them.

If the issue is routes getting closed, your focus should be on the agencies making those decisions and the groups who advocate for closures IMHO. I would like to see some documentation stating that ARS has an agenda for closure, because I haven't seen it. I'm a landscape architect and have to deal with NEPA and EAs when planning for trails and recreational facilities...I also wheel and ride in my free time. Does simply having to deal with things with "environment" in the name make you a closure bent enviromentalist?
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BAMF-FJ
AZ Pinstriped
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Joined: Sep 01, 2011
Posts: 279

PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:46 pm    Post subject: Re: The bottom line. Reply with quote

blue10 wrote:
Screw it. Wait for the collapse then wheel anywhere you like. Wink

Yup, time to stock pile Petrol

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AZRebel
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Joined: Mar 10, 2012
Posts: 287
Location: Laveen

PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:55 am    Post subject: Re: The bottom line. Reply with quote

AZstateParksOHV wrote:
Reading the OP and Chris's response, it appears as if you guys think ARS has an environmental agenda. They are simply a government contractor that agencies like BLM and USFS hire to complete work the agencies do not have staff for. I actually know a couple of people who worked for ARS that are avid dirt bikers and wheelers. They were hired to inventory routes on BLM land so that they can be added to the road inventory and posted route signage so people know where to go. Those dudes worked hard to make sure every remote track was picked up and counted so we could continue to enjoy them.

If the issue is routes getting closed, your focus should be on the agencies making those decisions and the groups who advocate for closures IMHO. I would like to see some documentation stating that ARS has an agenda for closure, because I haven't seen it. I'm a landscape architect and have to deal with NEPA and EAs when planning for trails and recreational facilities...I also wheel and ride in my free time. Does simply having to deal with things with "environment" in the name make you a closure bent enviromentalist?

yeah and Obama has guns / shoots often with no gun control agenda.
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