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Forums › Arizona FJ Discussion › Land Use › This is URGENT Land Use, will lose Table Mesa, Boulders down
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This is URGENT Land Use, will lose Table Mesa, Boulders down
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My1stJeep
AZ Pinstriped
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Joined: Apr 29, 2011
Posts: 222

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 12:42 pm    Post subject: This is URGENT Land Use, will lose Table Mesa, Boulders down Reply with quote

Sonoran Desert Heritage Proposed Wilderness Plan: THIS IS ALREADY IN WASHINGTON!!! OHV community this is a very dangerous plan, this will set a precedence allowing groups who are anti-OHV to propose future bills to take areas that currently do not meet Wilderness Characteristics, and design them to be reclaimed and restored to Wilderness Characteristics. This would allow them to attack any area we have already gone through the process of doing travel management planning, worked for years on and set up sustainable trail networks and basically shut them down. The area included in this plan starts up at Table Mesa Road, head West, then down South past the White Tanks and then back East. This area would close all of our trails within the area.

Go go www.azohvc.org for maps and more details. Please don't wait, your legislators need to hear from you now and don't to support the AZOHVC efforts to keep the lobbyist/lawyer we are going to need him to win this!!!

You can donate at azohvc @ yahoo.com . You can put in the notes that the funds are for the lobbyist/Lawyer and those funds can only be used for that purpose.

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Thoreau
Obstacle Crusher
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Joined: Aug 17, 2011
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 12:57 pm    Post subject: Re: This is URGENT Land Use, will lose Table Mesa, Boulders down Reply with quote

Cool, another reason to consider Grijalva a worthless sack of shit...

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Jimbolio
Master Wheeler
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Joined: Oct 19, 2008
Posts: 11757
Location: Tucson

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 1:20 pm    Post subject: Re: This is URGENT Land Use, will lose Table Mesa, Boulders down Reply with quote

Wish I could help you out with legislative ranting but all our representation in Pima County is by Libtards. Including Grijalva (Which I can't apologize for because he's far beyond that stage).

I can help you out with Lobby donation after next payday.

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Homedad
Master Wheeler
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Joined: Nov 29, 2007
Posts: 9272

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 2:16 pm    Post subject: Re: This is URGENT Land Use, will lose Table Mesa, Boulders down Reply with quote



I noticed you read my other post so I deleted it from the masses.

But so you know, my donation fund went to the kids school for the past 4 years...the kids ALL get homework now Wink


Last edited by Homedad on Sat May 18, 2013 1:31 pm; edited 3 times in total
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glideraz
Baja Champ
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Joined: Jan 18, 2010
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Location: avondale

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 2:19 pm    Post subject: Re: This is URGENT Land Use, will lose Table Mesa, Boulders down Reply with quote

Let me think about it
Everytime this group wants to help it seems like it never goes anywhere(ignored or forgotten)
Maybe there is another group that we could stand benind and our trails might actually stay open

Or they close and oh well

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My1stJeep
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Joined: Apr 29, 2011
Posts: 222

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 3:45 pm    Post subject: Re: This is URGENT Land Use, will lose Table Mesa, Boulders down Reply with quote

Not sure why we keep going rounds about Table Mesa.

I have apologized to the ends of the earth, the issue was that no one knew your group existed from the AZOHVC, by the same token no one from AZFJ had gotten involved with any of the public meetings so no comments were made on the trails that were lost.

I have offered several times to meet with your group and Jeff to map the ones you would like to get listed as open, Jeff has already talked about it with the BLM and they are open to it, the response I received from this group was don't bother we will just run them illegally.

You wanted me to pick a time to meet with Jeff in general about the AZOHVC, he offered up possibly meeting on FR42 to talk about the issues but also to show you work the AZOHVC is doing, not one response from this group to say yes or no.

The constant blaming is the main reason the OHV community stays fragmented and gives the victories over to those who are anti-OHV, one day we all need to get past it, move forward and figure out how to work together to save trails. There is no other group in AZ working to save or done even close to what has been done with the AZOHVC.

I realize I have asked for help on the website, I have not been able to carve outmuch time with work, meetings, working to save Upper Woodpecker and family. I am doing the best I can, if someone here thinks they can do better I am happy to turn over the reigns or work with you. As with the meetings suggested, I reached out and got zero response and it was this group that requested it.

As for loss of Table Mesa I will not longer apolozige, I have done it enough and made several attempts to help make it right. I will tell you currently there are trails in Table Mesa, you can get to the ones you want to run illegally, if this passes that will all be Wilderness and you won't even be able to get to them illegally.

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Chris
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FatRat
Baja Champ
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Joined: Jan 10, 2011
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 10:26 pm    Post subject: Re: This is URGENT Land Use, will lose Table Mesa, Boulders down Reply with quote

Chris, I have many times stood and supported you and the AZOHVC on this forum. I have defended you and what you are trying to do on numerous occasions. I have petitioned this group to stand up and have their voices heard, to which MANY of them DID. Might I remind you of the Peoria meets that MANY of this forum showed and actually I think out numbered any other group that showed up and that includes AZOHVC. But I have to admit that I am bothered by this post.


My1stJeep wrote:
Not sure why we keep going rounds about Table Mesa.

I have apologized to the ends of the earth, the issue was that no one knew your group existed from the AZOHVC, by the same token no one from AZFJ had gotten involved with any of the public meetings so no comments were made on the trails that were lost. By your own admission, you didn't know this group existed. So by that note, how do you expect us to know if anything is going on that you need help with if you didn't know to tell us. You know that the government agencies do a shitty job of announcing the meetings.

I have offered several times to meet with your group and Jeff to map the ones you would like to get listed as open, Jeff has already talked about it with the BLM and they are open to it, the response I received from this group was don't bother we will just run them illegally. What good is it to tell you what trails we want to have saved, the management plan is already been made, drawn, and approved. I also don't recall anyone here saying they would "run them illegally". I do remember some saying they would just run it until it is posted as being closed. You really need to stop putting words in peoples mouths.

You wanted me to pick a time to meet with Jeff in general about the AZOHVC, he offered up possibly meeting on FR42 to talk about the issues but also to show you work the AZOHVC is doing, not one response from this group to say yes or no. Yes, some in this group requested a meeting. I think the problem is that it went on deaf ears for so long and then all of a sudden you wanted to do it. Then we find out that Jeff, although very busy, won't take the time to pick a day and meet with the group, but instead wants us to go to him. You need to remember, regardless of who requested the meeting, AZOHVC came to US for help. We have tried to do that. On several fronts, but it just seems to many that AZOHVC is not happy with the help they ARE getting from us. It does get old after a while.

The constant blaming is the main reason the OHV community stays fragmented and gives the victories over to those who are anti-OHV, one day we all need to get past it, move forward and figure out how to work together to save trails. There is no other group in AZ working to save or done even close to what has been done with the AZOHVC. Not really sure what to say here. If you want the "blaming" to stop them the AZOHVC should make it that there is no reason for anyone to complain. Not realistic? Then stop complaining about the blaming.

I realize I have asked for help on the website, I have not been able to carve outmuch time with work, meetings, working to save Upper Woodpecker and family. I am doing the best I can, if someone here thinks they can do better I am happy to turn over the reigns or work with you. As with the meetings suggested, I reached out and got zero response and it was this group that requested it. SEE ABOVE

As for loss of Table Mesa I will not longer apolozige, I have done it enough and made several attempts to help make it right. I will tell you currently there are trails in Table Mesa, you can get to the ones you want to run illegally, if this passes that will all be Wilderness and you won't even be able to get to them illegally.

Nobody is asking for an apology from you. No one here blames you personally for what happened with Table Mesa. We have ALL seem the way FS, BLM, and the State handle things. We have all been involved in meetings and fighting to save things ONLY to have them pulled out from under us by the liberal biased committees that are put in charge of coming up with the management plans.

Also, I think you need to stop taking things so personal. You are a Representative for AZOHVC. You are the one with your face in the public and when that public is upset YOU will be the one to catch the shit. It doesn't mean that the shit is meant for you personally, just the organization. I know it gets old to hear, but you work for the organization, you are not THE organization.
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My1stJeep
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 12:04 pm    Post subject: Re: This is URGENT Land Use, will lose Table Mesa, Boulders down Reply with quote

Fatrat I agree, however to continue to blame the AZOHVC for the loss of trails at Table Mesa is absurd. As soon as i found out why this group was upset I talked with Jeff and Posted we wanted to map the trails, I also included that Jeff had talked with the Phoenix BLM and they were open to sit and discuss opening those you wanted back up. To yoru second point what good is it, if the BLM is willing to talk about opening them not sure how that is a bad thing? To me that is worth it.

Keep in mind the Phoenix BLM has been much more level headed, in boht cases for Collateral Damage and Upper Terminator they could have easily just closed them based on Private Property issues, yet worked with us to keep them both. So now they want to know what this groups needs are and instead the response is there is no reason.

Yes you posted up something to that affect you would run them until closed, however there were other comments made to me they will just run them illegally. Thus my comment.

Did not realize it upset anyone when Jeff suggested it. Either way for a meeting with Jeff you would have had to go to him, either his house of FR42. yes it took awhile, but we are dealing with alot of issues with many land management groups. He actually thought you might like to see the work in action to get a true idea of the work being done, his thought was what better way then at one of the projects. All any one had to say was they would rather meet at his house, it was posted as a question, he would meet either way just needed to know so he could pick a date. This was not him saying I am Jeff Gursh you must come to me, it was simply an option so people could see the work being done. He has taken people on tours of his work before and met with great results when people see if first hand and that was all he was trying to do.

The comment about the blame is directed at the fact groups and this is not pointed at just the AZFJ, this goes much deeper, people look to blame rather then figure out ways to improve and work together. It is the quads vs bikes vs 4x4 vs side by sides, the fact that the anti-OHV groups have us at odds within kills us from gaining ground. Until we each take stand to unite we will continue to flounder, have minimal success and our victories to keep trails will be effected. We all know that not knowing the AZFJ club existed so they could work with the plans and the AZFJ club not being involved hurt Table Mesa, but that is in the past, we are trying to rectifiy that and it seems some want to just stay in the past and keep the blame game going. We are doing our best to reach out and instead seems the blame game is easier to play.

I guess my thought is, if you don't go out and vote you don't have a right to complain how the country is run. I agree you came out in droves to the Peoria meetings, it was awesome!!! Right now I feel more like this group says forget geet being involved lets just complain. I know many on here don't fit that mold, not sure it truly is how those complaining really feel either, but if I don't post up and you don't get involved or have the chance you have something very seriously to complain about as it would be Table Mesa again all over.

This time I am trying to make you aware of what could be lost, making sure it is not a repeat, yes the post goes into requesting funds, based on previous conversations and I understand your concerns I am pretty sure no financial donations were going to come from AZFJ, to which I am ok with. You have legit concerns and to this date we have not been able to make a meeting work to address and I respect that.

However taking the time to call or write in to help stop this and making your voice heard to me is something every OHV person can and should do. There are many in the OHV community that can give time, write letters, attend meetings or donate funds. Very few can do all, but each should do what they can.

So that all the groups heard the same message I copied and pasted it to all the clubs the same, I realize some might donate money, some might donate time for letters, some might donate time to call, each person has their own situation and can only do what they can, I didn't not it was right nor necessary to try and give a bunch of different sales pitches to the groups (that leads to questions why each group was sold something different), I want to be transparent, so each group got the same post and all my expectation is that each person reading will look to do what they can. I will put no one down for doing what they can to help, what ever they can do as long as they make an effort.

JMO

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Rastarider
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Joined: Nov 12, 2008
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 4:55 pm    Post subject: Re: This is URGENT Land Use, will lose Table Mesa, Boulders down Reply with quote

Who puts worms in cans anyway?

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My1stJeep
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:16 am    Post subject: Re: This is URGENT Land Use, will lose Table Mesa, Boulders down Reply with quote

Keep the contact to the senators coming, we really need the support, reach out to friends and relatives in other states, this is in Washington so we need all the help nationally we can get.



Please cc gursh1spud @ aol.com

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My1stJeep @ excite.com
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pbailey184
Mall Queen
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:40 pm    Post subject: Re: This is URGENT Land Use, will lose Table Mesa, Boulders down Reply with quote

If you havent contacted your Congressman about this there is still time. It is still in a House commitee and has not been voted on.
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Angry_Tim
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:02 pm    Post subject: Re: This is URGENT Land Use, will lose Table Mesa, Boulders down Reply with quote

pbailey184 wrote:
If you havent contacted your Congressman about this there is still time. It is still in a House commitee and has not been voted on.

Did and got a nice standard reply.

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Jimbolio
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:25 pm    Post subject: Re: This is URGENT Land Use, will lose Table Mesa, Boulders down Reply with quote

Both of our congressmen are Libtards that probably want this. I won't waste the electrons.

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