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Forums › Arizona FJ Discussion › Land Use › anyone know what's the story @ white tanks?
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anyone know what's the story @ white tanks?
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sicc_soul916
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Joined: Mar 13, 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 2:37 pm    Post subject: anyone know what's the story @ white tanks? Reply with quote

Went wheeling out at the white tanks off of Watson in Buckeye yesterday and there were some different (new signs) and construction vehicles out there. From what I've found/read, Buckeye is making a park out there (Skyline). My question is does anyone know if 4x4ing is still allowed. I know its state trust land and I do have a permit, but now the no trespassing signs say nothing about "permit required", just "no trespassing". Thoughts?

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BellyDoc
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:24 pm    Post subject: Re: anyone know what's the story @ white tanks? Reply with quote

It's not state trust land. There's a small square of state trust land in the middle but otherwise it's now Buckeye annexed, formerly BLM land. The story is long and somewhat complicated, but the short version is that the city of Buckeye screwed us when they failed to consider OHV use in their environmental impact study, and set the park building process in motion. At that point, OHV use became illegal. That was quite a few years ago now. However, law enforcement was slow to catch on, and for quite some time 4x4's but not ATVs were still being let in, even under the direct on-site presence of the MCSO and DPS. The decreased presence of wheelers turned the place into a shooting and dumping site, and the conditions rapidly deteriorated. Now, the work on developing the park is ramping up and the ban on motorized vehicles is being enforced.

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az4runner wrote:
glideraz wrote:
if I where you I would just get some jb weld
Is jb weld really as strong as if I just welded them on with my welder?

glideraz wrote:
Could be stronger it all depends on how you weld
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sicc_soul916
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 1:44 pm    Post subject: Re: anyone know what's the story @ white tanks? Reply with quote

hey doc, I have seen personally what you're saying but in the past 6 months (maybe less) signs and activity have changed. Recently there's a big sign right at the entrance to the dirt road saying no tresspassing, permit required. For a while there was either Buckeye PD or MCSO parked there on the weekends checking for State Trust Land permits (I was asked to show mine). Past the entrance sign, there were State Trust Land signs (permit required, no target shooting, ect) about every 50 yards. We went 4x4ing with no problem. Now this past friday we went, there's still the big sign at the entrance, but now I dont recall seeing many (if any) state trust land signs, just signs saying no trespassing and construction signs mentioning the Skyline park project. Just wondering if I did a no-no and went off roading where I shouldn't have or if my state trust permit is still ok there. From what I could find on the AZ state trust land website, it looks like its still trust land (with the exception of the sand hill area)

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sicc_soul916
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:15 pm    Post subject: Re: anyone know what's the story @ white tanks? Reply with quote

Well that settles it, no more 4x4ing in White Tanks Sad

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glideraz
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:12 pm    Post subject: Re: anyone know what's the story @ white tanks? Reply with quote

Yup we get that paper at home and read about it, sucks they had some really good trails out there.

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Jimbolio
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:30 pm    Post subject: Re: anyone know what's the story @ white tanks? Reply with quote

Too bad no disabled explorers will be able to do so out there any more.

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BellyDoc
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:31 pm    Post subject: Re: anyone know what's the story @ white tanks? Reply with quote

The checking of ASTL permits was just a pretense for stopping traffic. In fact, one could legitimately have argued that no permit was required for traversing State Land without a permit to get to the BLM land on the other side, by way of established dirt roads, but if pressed to argue this, it would have been in court... and would have required legal defense. This appears to be one of those rights that is being abdicated by the offroad community because of a combination of ignorance on the part of law enforcement, ambiguity in the law, and reasonable fear of expensive litigation among even those of us who have read the law. As usual, rights which are not exercised are subsequently lost.

Regardless of the issue of traversing ASTL without a recreation permit, the last few years wheeling that area have been after the fact of closure. Again, law enforcement has been apparently ignorant of the actual law, but in this case it was to our benefit. It was nice to get a few last trips out there, even though the place was getting pretty trashed.

This was essentially inevitable. That range will one day be completely surrounded by suburbia.

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az4runner wrote:
glideraz wrote:
if I where you I would just get some jb weld
Is jb weld really as strong as if I just welded them on with my welder?

glideraz wrote:
Could be stronger it all depends on how you weld
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spaldam
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:07 pm    Post subject: Re: anyone know what's the story @ white tanks? Reply with quote

I think one could legitimately argue that no permit is required for traversing State Land on any established right of way; especially if it's officially designated with a route/road number. It certainly isn't worthy of a trespassing charge.

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BellyDoc
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:14 pm    Post subject: Re: anyone know what's the story @ white tanks? Reply with quote

....I agree, and yet there have been charges successfully brought for this recently, and ultimately the law is best defined by how it is used and enforced.

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az4runner wrote:
glideraz wrote:
if I where you I would just get some jb weld
Is jb weld really as strong as if I just welded them on with my welder?

glideraz wrote:
Could be stronger it all depends on how you weld
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View user's profile Send private message Photo Gallery
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