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ACTIVE Arizona Fires
This forum is for general topics concerning the AZFJ community that do not fit in the other sections. This is not your offtopic rant forum. Please be respectful and keep it clean.
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BellyDoc
Baja Champ
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Joined: Dec 04, 2007
Posts: 3320

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:39 pm    Post subject: Re: ACTIVE Arizona Fires Reply with quote

Jimbo I appreciate the reporting that you do here in this thread. I don't have enough knowledge base to critique anything about wildfire management, but I find it fascinating how you're tracking these things, sharing details, and yet I don't seem to see much about it in the media. Thanks to this, perhaps *augmented* standpoint, there appears to be a marked disparity between the present fire season and my memory of past years. Is this a bad year for AZ already? Was I undersold the degree of fire damage in previous years and this is just how it really goes?

As far as the rest of this thread, since this isn't an area where I have any experience or interest in engaging on matters of specific detail, I have to make a more oblique comment.

In general, vitriolic rhetoric is rendered ineffective by virtue of it's intensity even before most folks have the chance to try to absorb and analyze the actual argument. Unfortunately, that's human, and many good messages have been killed by their own messengers.

People earn their place at the larger negotiating table through insightful questions, measured responses, and well considered conclusions. Strong exclamatory statements usually get summarily excluded because leadership is not about being louder, it's about demonstrating engagement with competing viewpoints, and optimizing what can be done with what's on hand. Changes in society are not actualized by monologue, and when change can occur, it happens relatively slowly. That's not a bad thing, it's not a good thing, it just is what it is. If one fails to factor that in to their thought process, then all they make is noise.

Yes, we can discuss things here.

I just haven't seen any discussion actually going on.

Sorry for being a downer.

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az4runner wrote:
glideraz wrote:
if I where you I would just get some jb weld
Is jb weld really as strong as if I just welded them on with my welder?

glideraz wrote:
Could be stronger it all depends on how you weld
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Jimbolio
Master Wheeler
Master Wheeler


Joined: Oct 19, 2008
Posts: 11429
Location: Tucson

PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:32 am    Post subject: Re: ACTIVE Arizona Fires Reply with quote

We had an incredibly good growing season this winter. That coupled with a warmer than usual (but not much) period and a delay in Monsoons has us where we are. Strong environmental pressure to remove lands from the prescribed burn plan ( which costs about $50/acre to do)
Then we end up with areas that build up fuels o 20-30 years or 50 in some cases, and that costs about $1,500/acre to fight).

Professional wildland folks I have asked say this is only slightly more intense than normal. But not unexpected.

My sole intent in this thread is not to preach any policy position but to let AZFJ people know where trails are open or closed.


Lots of good info here
www.nwcg.gov

Best website for info is here
wildfiretoday.com

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K9JBO
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Jimbolio
Master Wheeler
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Joined: Oct 19, 2008
Posts: 11429
Location: Tucson

PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:39 pm    Post subject: Re: ACTIVE Arizona Fires Reply with quote

New 18000 acre fire
inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/5336/

Near fr24 I17

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K9JBO
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tanman
Trail Runner
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Joined: Jun 03, 2011
Posts: 569
Location: Over The Mt & Thru The Woods

PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:29 pm    Post subject: Re: ACTIVE Arizona Fires Reply with quote

Jimbolio wrote:
Strong environmental pressure to remove lands from the prescribed burn plan ( which costs about $50/acre to do)
Then we end up with areas that build up fuels o 20-30 years or 50 in some cases, and that costs about $1,500/acre to fight).

That's some good information to know, and quite a cost difference there. I would have expected a higher cost per acre for fire fighting.

I took some pictures today of the coverup in progress on the burn area south of Globe. They've been running what appears to be a Bell 214 daily since at least 07/04/2017. Here it is picking up a load of what's definitely straw (it's even covering the road in spots). There's plenty more bare ground to cover and I can't even guess where they're getting all the straw.


www.azfj.org/index.php...fullsize=1

Here's a view of some of the progress made so far, and a drop in progress.


www.azfj.org/index.php...fullsize=1

Looking up the cost of operating a Bell 214 results in approximately $2,000 an hour plus pilot, support staff, additional vehicles, and of course the straw.

www.conklindd.com/CDAL...mmary.aspx

Gila county is now working feverishly to cut trees and clear paths for the ensuing debris and flooding that will come down with the monsoons in hope of saving bridges, roads, homes, and lives.

As Arizonans I'm sure we all know what adobe is made of, dirt, straw, and water. With these air drops we can now expect not only the original debris from the burn, but an adobe sludge. There's quite a heightened level of panic with the new hazard of adobe mash due to arrive.

I also noticed the "thank you firefighters" signs are now gone as residents are left to wonder what will be left for them after the next phase of devastation.

I'll keep the updates coming as the monsoons hit and we get more information and pictures on how Gila County survives the USFS destruction of the Pinal Mountain and the coming flood of adobe mix.

.
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Jimbolio
Master Wheeler
Master Wheeler


Joined: Oct 19, 2008
Posts: 11429
Location: Tucson

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:09 am    Post subject: Re: ACTIVE Arizona Fires Reply with quote

Brooklyn Fire now a complex of three fires
the Bull and Cedar fires are now being managed by the same group. The fire has doubled in size to 32,000 acres.

Inciweb wrote:
he Brooklyn incident started 07/07/2017 - 25 miles NW of Cave Creek; AZ in Brooklyn Peak area - Cause is Lightning/Natural. It is currently 32,778 Acres and 0% Contained.
It is being managed under a strategy of Full Suppression (100%)

Two lightning caused fires within relative proximity to the Brooklyn Fire have been incorporated into the management area on the Tonto National Forest. They are the Bull Fire (S/SE of the Brooklyn Fire) and Cedar Fire (E/SE of the Brooklyn Fire). These 2 fires are not a threat to structures at this time and are in remote areas with difficult access
Minimal fire behavior was observed on all three fires today. Incident managers are working with county law enforcement to continually evaluate the fire situation in areas where homes and property have the potential to One area on the Bull Fire was putting out smoke that was visible on I-17 from Bloody Basin south for a few miles..
There are NO evacuations in place at this time.
There are no impacts or closures on I-17.
Road locks are being manned by law enforcement at
the junction of Forest Roads 24 and 41
Bloody Basin Road and I-17
I-17 and Forest Road 41 (Table Mesa Road)
the Junction of Forest Roads 68 and 677.

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K9JBO
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Jimbolio
Master Wheeler
Master Wheeler


Joined: Oct 19, 2008
Posts: 11429
Location: Tucson

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:34 am    Post subject: Re: ACTIVE Arizona Fires Reply with quote

Burro fire update
74% contained
REDINGTON RD OPEN


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K9JBO
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deaz
Expeditioneer
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Joined: Dec 19, 2008
Posts: 998
Location: Tucson

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:53 am    Post subject: Re: ACTIVE Arizona Fires Reply with quote

Jimbolio wrote:
Burro fire update
74% contained
REDINGTON RD OPEN


I heard they will be opening Mt. Lemmon up to the public this weekend. Don't have any sources for verification though.
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Jimbolio
Master Wheeler
Master Wheeler


Joined: Oct 19, 2008
Posts: 11429
Location: Tucson

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:22 pm    Post subject: Re: ACTIVE Arizona Fires Reply with quote

SWIMT type I says thanks inciweb.nwcg.gov/incid...301/36397/

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K9JBO
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azflycaster
Obstacle Crusher
Obstacle Crusher


Joined: May 12, 2013
Posts: 2243
Location: Fountain Hills

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:38 pm    Post subject: Re: ACTIVE Arizona Fires Reply with quote

Once again mother nature to the rescue! Wink

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azflycaster
Obstacle Crusher
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Joined: May 12, 2013
Posts: 2243
Location: Fountain Hills

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:10 am    Post subject: Re: ACTIVE Arizona Fires Reply with quote

This is what happens when you play with matches!

ktar.com/story/1658286...-saturday/

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tanman
Trail Runner
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Joined: Jun 03, 2011
Posts: 569
Location: Over The Mt & Thru The Woods

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:37 pm    Post subject: Re: ACTIVE Arizona Fires Reply with quote

We've finally had some monsoon rain on the Pinal Mountain. Most bridges have survived so far though all but the tallest have overflowed with mud, straw, and debris.

I drove to where the Pioneer Pass road is closed 1/2 mile from the end of the pavement.

My dog is commenting on the damage in the picture below. He's definitely pissed off about what was done to his hiking area. The water overflowed and took out the creek crossing which is at the upper end of the overflow area beyond the large tree on the left.


www.azfj.org/index.php...fullsize=1

Here's the downstream view from the area of the large tree. It's at least 10 feet down from the road above to the stream below. the concrete reinforcements were never before visible. This was apparently a pretty stout piece of work ... until today.


www.azfj.org/index.php...fullsize=1

Here's a view up stream from the road picture above. Yes, that is uncooked adobe. Lots of straw, ash, and mud ... but you can walk on it. There apparently was enough volume of water in the runoff that most of the mush has so far passed on through the community.


www.azfj.org/index.php...fullsize=1
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